Support for RAW file formats. (Maybe incorporating dcraw.c?)

suggest a way to improve Neat Image
WING WONG

Support for RAW file formats. (Maybe incorporating dcraw.c?)

Post by WING WONG »

What would be helpful is the inclusion of RAW file support(RAW/MRW/NEF/etc). There is a source code module called dcraw.c which works great for converting from RAW to PPM/PSD file formats. Having NeatImage being able to noise profile and clean up a raw file would be great.

Wing Wong
andewid
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Post by andewid »

Yes it was suggested before (even by me too). It would be a great feature, especially as the NI noise reduction, sharpening, etc, could be in conjuction with the bayer algorithm that renders the image from sensor data in the raw file.
Dan
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Location: Chicago, IL

Some requesters ask for too much

Post by Dan »

Those of you who requested raw image compatibility perhaps do not appreciate the following:

1 Each camera maker have their own, usually proprietary format. Making a program that reads the majority of different RAW formats (Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Minolta etc.) is a huge undertaking --just look at the prices that C1 charges for it's various versions. Even the cheapest costs more than Neat Image Pro Plus.

2 When file formats are not published reverse engineering is the last resort and takes a lot more work than if the specs are given out.

3 Every camera I know of which has RAW file storage capability comes w a RAW converter already. This would be a rather overly difficult (time consuming) & perhaps unimportant addition when these tools aready exist.

4 The latest version of PShop CS comes w RAW file conversion for the major cameras. (see the RAW 2 update at Adobe).

5 The focus of Neat Image is not conversion universality but the best Noise Reduction Possible. They have been so busy they have not even had time to include JPEG2000 compatibility in the stand alone version (no problem if you use the PShop plugin since PShop CS already reads & writes JPEG2000).

VLAD, please correct me if I'm wrong -but these are problems I see w this suggestion.

I find it tiresome when people ask for unrealistic, impractical things because they haven't taken the time to think about it for more than 3 minutes.

Thanks for your attention,

Dan
NITeam
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Post by NITeam »

Dan, all your points are correct. However, people who made the suggestion about RAW support hope that RAW conversion and noise reduction can in some way be "combined" so that the overall result of such a combined process would be better than in the case of consequent conversion and noise reduction. While the feasibility of such a combined process can be debated, people hope that its benefits would overwheight all the points you listed. That's why the suggestion is here. What we can do is to estimate its feasibility and potential benefits. And we are doing this in our time scheduled for research. Hopefully we will be able to answer whether the suggestion can be applied, at least in principle.

Thank you for your comments and arguments.

Vlad
andewid
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Re: Some requesters ask for too much

Post by andewid »

Dan wrote:1 Each camera maker have their own, usually proprietary format. Making a program that reads the majority of different RAW formats (Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Minolta etc.) is a huge undertaking --just look at the prices that C1 charges for it's various versions. Even the cheapest costs more than Neat Image Pro Plus.
Yes, it would be. However, there is free code (dcraw) that support almost all RAW formats available. The licence for the dcraw software allows comercial applications to include it.

However, as Vlad said, the benefit might vary. In my testing, though, the dcraw software does give very sharp and detailed pictures. More so than most "propietary" raw converters.
emcherry
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RAW Support

Post by emcherry »

I too would like to chime in for NI supporting RAW formats. I have not bought a product yet (looking at both NI & NN) and what would do it for me is RAW support. I hope you do this as it would put you out in front in this area.
NITeam
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Post by NITeam »

emcherry, thank you for your comments. I appreaciate your opinion.

Regarding RAW support, are you looking for it specifically in the standalone version of Neat Image or in general?

I just want to make clear that if you use the plug-in version of Neat Image filter then you most likely already have RAW support (thanks to the RAW support provided by the plug-in host, usually Photoshop).

Vlad
andewid
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Post by andewid »

One benefit with RAW support in the stand-alone version of NI would be that the noise reduction could be done before gamma compensation. Also, it would be unaffected by the post-processing that most RAW converters do (Like Photoshop Camera RAW plugin). Other converters (like the native Nikon Edit/View) give poor quality as they apply to high contrast that clips shadow and highlights.

Not to meantion, the dcraw softare's algorithm gives very sharp and detailed pictures. =).
emcherry
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Post by emcherry »

I would like it in a standalone product as I use Picture Window Pro as my editor. Would love to see it as a Nikon Capture Plug In but I realize that you cannot support that many disparate platforms.

Thanx
emcherry
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RAW format support

Post by emcherry »

NITeam .... any feedback ???
NITeam
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Post by NITeam »

As I wrote before, we are considering adding RAW support and weighting the benefits and costs. So far no decision was made.

Vlad
TechMage89
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Post by TechMage89 »

Adobe has created a standard RAW-type format called DNG (Digital Negative)
and created a converter to make a RAW file DNG. (which is a free download, see http://www.adobe.com/products/dng/main.html ) All NeatImage would have to support would be DNG, which anyone could then easily make from a RAW. This approach would definitely be much easier.
beruberu
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Post by beruberu »

TechMage89 wrote:Adobe has created a standard RAW-type format called DNG (Digital Negative)
and created a converter to make a RAW file DNG. (which is a free download, see http://www.adobe.com/products/dng/main.html ) All NeatImage would have to support would be DNG, which anyone could then easily make from a RAW. This approach would definitely be much easier.
Hello,

And what are you doing if you use Paint ShoPro??????

LOL
Best Greatings from Switzerland.
Phil
http://www.focusnature.ch
http://astrosurf.com/skylover/
profotos
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Post by profotos »

As mentioned in the New Features forum, we've added integration with Neat Image to our Canon EOS Raw processing software.

See

http://www.profotosoftware.com/pid_noise.php for details.
Andy Bell
ProFotoSoftware Ltd
Canon EOS Raw Processing for Windows
pinobot
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Post by pinobot »

Paintshop Pro X supports .dng :wink:
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