here:
http://loveforjesus.com/gallery/f828_noise_reduction
If you look at the ISO800 8megapixel samples that are noise reduced, you will notice some strange crystalline artifacts while using NeatImage. These artifacts seem less when my camera takes an iso800 8MP shot downsampled to 5MP within camera, then noise reduced afterwards.
I am using the Sony f828 profile on the website, and my own profiles that I create as well still exhibit this issue, with %50 Y reduction, everything else default.
Is there any way around this, could this be a bug in NeatImage? Im using 4.0. Also I've tried taking the same picture except in .tif (no compression) and it still results in the same issue, so its not jpeg artifacts's fault. I've also trying bumping up the chroma noise from %25 to higher, increasing the Y noise reduction, all help only incrementally.
Could it be that NeatImage is not strong enough to deal with Sony F828's iso800 noise, which is probably one of the worst you can find in a high-end consumer digital camera under $1000? Or perhaps NeatImage needs a special algorithm to deal with Sony's new Super-HAD sensor? Or maybe NeatImage just needs some programmatic tweaks for the next release? Just throwing up guesses. Thanks for any suggestion how I can solve this! I've tried almost everything...
Michael C.
strange crystalline noise reduction artifacts - high ISO
Michael,
This type of 'artifacts' usually is a sure sign of an inaccurate noise profile used. Please build a profile from the very same image you process. In this way, the profile will match the noise properties of the image and there should be much less residual noise (you call this artifacts, but this is just part of the noise that is not reduced because of an inaccurate profile).
Please try the above and let me know.
Also, with an inaccurate profile, try to increase the Y noise level in the filter settings.
Thank you,
Vlad
P.S. I downloaded one of the images (1_iso800_real_8mp.jpg) and built a profile using "Auto Profile". Then I checked the preview on several areas (filter settings all on defaults) - noise reduction looks fine to me, no artifacts. And if I additionally enable Very low freq filtration then it looks even better with this image.
This type of 'artifacts' usually is a sure sign of an inaccurate noise profile used. Please build a profile from the very same image you process. In this way, the profile will match the noise properties of the image and there should be much less residual noise (you call this artifacts, but this is just part of the noise that is not reduced because of an inaccurate profile).
Please try the above and let me know.
Also, with an inaccurate profile, try to increase the Y noise level in the filter settings.
Thank you,
Vlad
P.S. I downloaded one of the images (1_iso800_real_8mp.jpg) and built a profile using "Auto Profile". Then I checked the preview on several areas (filter settings all on defaults) - noise reduction looks fine to me, no artifacts. And if I additionally enable Very low freq filtration then it looks even better with this image.
Hi, thank you for your prompt response (again)!
Yes, a custom tweaked profile does fix the artifacts. I apologize about not trying that initially (and wasting your time).
The issue that concerns me the most I guess is will I have to individually tweak the noise settings for all ISO800 shots? I'd prefer not to have to do that however, and would rather use a pre-made noise profile for ALL my ISO800 shots, so I can batch process them all in one pass.
Now, the f828 noise profile I used was the one for the f828 that I downloaded, and I've even tried to use my own profile + calibration target, and was not successful in creating a better one that reduce those artifacts as compared to the one on this site. Do you have any suggestions regarding creating a "universal" ISO800 noise profile? Should I also take a photo of a Gretag-Macbeth color shot, zoomed to infinity as well, would that achieve anything?
Thanks for the support, it has been GREAT.
michael c.
Yes, a custom tweaked profile does fix the artifacts. I apologize about not trying that initially (and wasting your time).
The issue that concerns me the most I guess is will I have to individually tweak the noise settings for all ISO800 shots? I'd prefer not to have to do that however, and would rather use a pre-made noise profile for ALL my ISO800 shots, so I can batch process them all in one pass.
Now, the f828 noise profile I used was the one for the f828 that I downloaded, and I've even tried to use my own profile + calibration target, and was not successful in creating a better one that reduce those artifacts as compared to the one on this site. Do you have any suggestions regarding creating a "universal" ISO800 noise profile? Should I also take a photo of a Gretag-Macbeth color shot, zoomed to infinity as well, would that achieve anything?
Thanks for the support, it has been GREAT.
michael c.
Tweaking noise filter settings is not necessary once a profile is accurate (this is the rule of thumb with Neat Image). So, the issue is how to get a profile that accurately matches the noise properties of a particular image in hand. - There are several possibilities when you have to process many images:
1) use some fixed ready-made profile (for example one you build yourself using Neat Image Calibration Target and your camera working in particular mode) and use Auto Fine-Tuning for every image you process in queue (you can set Auto Fine-Tuning from Batch too); Auto Fine-Tuning will fine-tune the profile to the image processed.
2) automatically find the best matching profile using Auto Match and also use Auto Fine-Tuning;
3) set Auto Profile in Batch or in Queue. Auto Profile will automatically build a new profile for every image you process in batch and such a profile will be more accurate than (1) or (2).
In all three cases, you don't have to manually tweak anything.
Vlad
1) use some fixed ready-made profile (for example one you build yourself using Neat Image Calibration Target and your camera working in particular mode) and use Auto Fine-Tuning for every image you process in queue (you can set Auto Fine-Tuning from Batch too); Auto Fine-Tuning will fine-tune the profile to the image processed.
2) automatically find the best matching profile using Auto Match and also use Auto Fine-Tuning;
3) set Auto Profile in Batch or in Queue. Auto Profile will automatically build a new profile for every image you process in batch and such a profile will be more accurate than (1) or (2).
In all three cases, you don't have to manually tweak anything.
Vlad
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Greg Campbell
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 2:04 am
- Location: Tucson, Az
- Contact:
Please specify what file. What does the the 'real' vs. 'std' naming represent?
Short answer, IMO, at higher ISOand/or higher temperatures and/or higher JPG compression ratios, your standard profile may not work as well. To minimise the 'crystal' growth, move High or Medium (one or the other should work, depending on your particular camera and settings) freqency 'Noise Levels' sliders a click or two to the right. Observe the results and tweak again if needed. Increasing High/Med Freq Y sensitivity will also help. Adjust either with caution, else they will start to eat up real detail. Also, increasing Y 'Noise Reduction Amounts' will smooth that part of the crystal noise that is beyond the threshold that the first two suggested sliders adjust. If that makes sense...
-Greg
Short answer, IMO, at higher ISOand/or higher temperatures and/or higher JPG compression ratios, your standard profile may not work as well. To minimise the 'crystal' growth, move High or Medium (one or the other should work, depending on your particular camera and settings) freqency 'Noise Levels' sliders a click or two to the right. Observe the results and tweak again if needed. Increasing High/Med Freq Y sensitivity will also help. Adjust either with caution, else they will start to eat up real detail. Also, increasing Y 'Noise Reduction Amounts' will smooth that part of the crystal noise that is beyond the threshold that the first two suggested sliders adjust. If that makes sense...
-Greg
Its all good!
Just to finish off this thread -
I created some new noise profiles (yet again), printed the target out on heavyweight matte photo paper this time, and carefully re-made my noise profile set, then re-ran my noise reduction tests for ISO 800 & ISO 400.
No more artifacts at all, everything looks great.!
Thanks for a good product.
mc
I created some new noise profiles (yet again), printed the target out on heavyweight matte photo paper this time, and carefully re-made my noise profile set, then re-ran my noise reduction tests for ISO 800 & ISO 400.
No more artifacts at all, everything looks great.!
Thanks for a good product.
mc